Funny Pictures: rec.arts.books - 25 new messages in 8 topics

rec.arts.books
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The book that contains all books
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/1950ed5393c908a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 21 2009 9:07 pm
From: wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr)

In article <nebusj.1256052866@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>,
nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) said:

> I was thinking of the Stanislaw Lem robot story in which all
> possible information, books included, were extracted from the
> molecular movement within a cup of tea, myself.

Doesn't that just produce the same "having all possible information
is like having no information" problem as Borges' Library of Babel?

-- wds

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 2:55 am
From: Miles Bader

rmak <rca976@live.com> writes:
>> (Wall Street Journal) - On October 19th, the Kindle 2
>> (Amazon.com: http://xrl.us/KindleInternational) will
>> become the first e-reader available globally. The only
>> other events as important to the history of the book are
>> the birth of print and the shift from the scroll to bound
>> pages.
>
> Was this Wall Street Journal article written by an Amazon shareholder?

Putting aside the silly sycophantic WSJ article, the new "international"
kindle is quite disappointing, and not really very "international": it
_still_ can't display non-latin text by default! This limitation is
particularly dumb because the kindle is apparently quite capable of
using a larger-coverage font (and someone's actually made a hack that
does so, by installing a new default font to the kindle), and they could
have markedly improved the unit simply by using a different default
font.

My theory is that Amazon is still developing a true international model
(which would deal properly not just with non-latin characters, but also
with other issues, such as R-to-L and vertical writing directions, etc),
and they're just using this half-assed model to test their new network
agreements in other countries. I suppose they figure they can make a
bit of extra cash at the same time by selling a few to American tourists
and expatriates.

It's still kind of annoying that they've sort of gone and blown their
load early with all the excess hype, though; how are they going to
market the real thing now? "We were only kidding before, this is the
_real_ international model"?!

-Miles

--
Inhumanity, n. One of the signal and characteristic qualities of humanity.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 3:46 am
From: netcat

In article <buo4opr4us0.fsf@dhlpc061.dev.necel.com>, miles@gnu.org
says...
> rmak <rca976@live.com> writes:
> >> (Wall Street Journal) - On October 19th, the Kindle 2
> >> (Amazon.com: http://xrl.us/KindleInternational) will
> >> become the first e-reader available globally. The only
> >> other events as important to the history of the book are
> >> the birth of print and the shift from the scroll to bound
> >> pages.
> >
> > Was this Wall Street Journal article written by an Amazon shareholder?
>
> Putting aside the silly sycophantic WSJ article, the new "international"
> kindle is quite disappointing, and not really very "international": it
> _still_ can't display non-latin text by default!

And of course the wireless connection doesn't actually work in all
countries. Assuming the wireless costs are included in the pricing,
people in those countries will be paying for something they are not
getting. Also, shipping only a US power adapter with international sales
is sort of stupid and pointless, IMO.

> It's still kind of annoying that they've sort of gone and blown their
> load early with all the excess hype, though; how are they going to
> market the real thing now? "We were only kidding before, this is the
> _real_ international model"?!

They'll just call it Kindle 3 and everyone will scramble, because 3 > 2

rgds,
netcat

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 4:29 am
From: Szymon Sokół

On 22 Oct 2009 00:07:08 -0400, William December Starr wrote:

> In article <nebusj.1256052866@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>,
> nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) said:
>
>> I was thinking of the Stanislaw Lem robot story in which all
>> possible information, books included, were extracted from the
>> molecular movement within a cup of tea, myself.
>
> Doesn't that just produce the same "having all possible information
> is like having no information" problem as Borges' Library of Babel?

Exactly, that was Lem's idea - the guy, for whom the information-spewing
daemon had been made, was unable to sift the *valuable* information from all
the crap. And Lem wrote it long before the beginnings of the Internet...

--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mandelbrot on efficient markets
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/496fa77e4c853268?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 12:25 am
From: The Other

Marko Amnell <marko.amnell@kolumbus.fi> writes:

> Here is a short review which I thought was fair:

[...]

Agreed, but all of this is very old news. People have known for
decades that distributions of returns are nonnormal. As the guy says,
the models are used anyway when there's nothing better. It's another
case of looking for your keys under the streetlight when you dropped
them in the alley, because the light is better there. The main thing
is that the people developing and implementing these analytics, the
"rocket scientists", very rarely have a background in statistics. (I
think Nissim Taleb emphasizes this fact.) I'm not talking about the
big names here, but about the ones who actually do the stuff. They've
typically learned their probability and statistics in physics courses,
sometimes econometric courses, or sometimes even on their own.
They're financial *engineers*, and like all engineers, they have no
patience for "philosophical" questions like whether their models are
really justified. That's the kind of stuff statisticians worry about;
it's not what the customer is paying for. Engineers just want to find
a formula that "works".

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 12:34 am
From: Virgil

In article <lyk4ynvqii.fsf@circe.aeaea>,
The Other <other@address.invalid> wrote:

> Marko Amnell <marko.amnell@kolumbus.fi> writes:
>
> > Here is a short review which I thought was fair:
>
> [...]
>
> Agreed, but all of this is very old news. People have known for
> decades that distributions of returns are nonnormal. As the guy says,
> the models are used anyway when there's nothing better. It's another
> case of looking for your keys under the streetlight when you dropped
> them in the alley, because the light is better there. The main thing
> is that the people developing and implementing these analytics, the
> "rocket scientists", very rarely have a background in statistics. (I
> think Nissim Taleb emphasizes this fact.) I'm not talking about the
> big names here, but about the ones who actually do the stuff. They've
> typically learned their probability and statistics in physics courses,
> sometimes econometric courses, or sometimes even on their own.
> They're financial *engineers*, and like all engineers, they have no
> patience for "philosophical" questions like whether their models are
> really justified. That's the kind of stuff statisticians worry about;
> it's not what the customer is paying for. Engineers just want to find
> a formula that "works".

But, in this case at least, it appears the formulas don't work!

Even engineers should eventually notice when that keeps happening.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 1:04 am
From: Marko Amnell

On Oct 22, 10:34 am, Virgil <Vir...@home.esc> wrote:
> In article <lyk4ynvqii....@circe.aeaea>,
> The Other <ot...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Marko Amnell <marko.amn...@kolumbus.fi> writes:
>
> > > Here is a short review which I thought was fair:
>
> > [...]
>
> > Agreed, but all of this is very old news. People have known for
> > decades that distributions of returns are nonnormal. As the guy says,
> > the models are used anyway when there's nothing better. It's another
> > case of looking for your keys under the streetlight when you dropped
> > them in the alley, because the light is better there. The main thing
> > is that the people developing and implementing these analytics, the
> > "rocket scientists", very rarely have a background in statistics. (I
> > think Nissim Taleb emphasizes this fact.) I'm not talking about the
> > big names here, but about the ones who actually do the stuff. They've
> > typically learned their probability and statistics in physics courses,
> > sometimes econometric courses, or sometimes even on their own.
> > They're financial *engineers*, and like all engineers, they have no
> > patience for "philosophical" questions like whether their models are
> > really justified. That's the kind of stuff statisticians worry about;
> > it's not what the customer is paying for. Engineers just want to find
> > a formula that "works".
>
> But, in this case at least, it appears the formulas don't work!
>
> Even engineers should eventually notice when that keeps happening.

Right. I think the key question that needs to be
answered is: To what extent were the incorrect
assumptions underlying modern financial theory
responsible for the severity of the recent (and
ongoing) financial crisis? Mandelbrot and Hudson
claim in their new preface written in October 2008
that "the 2007/08 credit crisis was magnified by
a phenomenon new to our generation: an over-
confidence in our understanding of markets, as
reflected in the industry's increasingly sophisticated
computer models." But they do no substantiate
that assertion. Well, the new preface is only five
pages long, so they can't, but there is a more
fundamental difficulty in answering that question:
lack of data. A large proportion of the financial
instruments responsible for the financial crisis
were not traded on markets for which records
are available.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 2:58 am
From: "Arindam Banerjee"

"Virgil" <Virgil@home.esc> wrote in message
news:Virgil-64345C.01342722102009@bignews.usenetmonster.com...
> In article <lyk4ynvqii.fsf@circe.aeaea>,
> The Other <other@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Marko Amnell <marko.amnell@kolumbus.fi> writes:
>>
>> > Here is a short review which I thought was fair:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Agreed, but all of this is very old news. People have known for
>> decades that distributions of returns are nonnormal. As the guy says,
>> the models are used anyway when there's nothing better. It's another
>> case of looking for your keys under the streetlight when you dropped
>> them in the alley, because the light is better there. The main thing
>> is that the people developing and implementing these analytics, the
>> "rocket scientists", very rarely have a background in statistics. (I
>> think Nissim Taleb emphasizes this fact.) I'm not talking about the
>> big names here, but about the ones who actually do the stuff. They've
>> typically learned their probability and statistics in physics courses,
>> sometimes econometric courses, or sometimes even on their own.
>> They're financial *engineers*, and like all engineers, they have no
>> patience for "philosophical" questions like whether their models are
>> really justified. That's the kind of stuff statisticians worry about;
>> it's not what the customer is paying for. Engineers just want to find
>> a formula that "works".

Let us see, in my engineering institute we had separate engineering degree
from different departments in Agricultural, Aeronautical, Electrical,
Electronics and Electrical Communication, Chemical, Mechanical, Civil,
Mining, Metallurgical, Naval Architecture - what the hell is a financial
engineer? Looks like there is an effort in this ng to give genuine
engineers a bad name. Most deplorable!

> But, in this case at least, it appears the formulas don't work!
>
> Even engineers should eventually notice when that keeps happening.

True, which is why *WE* from IIT Kharagpur say that e=mcc is the most
absolute bollocks, and all peoples in all nations that *believe* in that
sort of crap should not get any sympathy when their economies, morals,
health, etc get busted.

Cheers,

Arindam Banerjee.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 7:04 pm
From: Les Cargill

The Other wrote:
> Marko Amnell <marko.amnell@kolumbus.fi> writes:
<snip>
> They're financial *engineers*, and like all engineers, they have no
> patience for "philosophical" questions like whether their models are
> really justified. That's the kind of stuff statisticians worry about;
> it's not what the customer is paying for. Engineers just want to find
> a formula that "works".

I dunno - I have always been interested in the philosophy behind
software engineering. And it's been fruitful.

--
Les Cargill

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 7:07 pm
From: Les Cargill

Marko Amnell wrote:
> On Oct 7, 9:48 pm, Marko Amnell <marko.amn...@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>
>> ... I should say that I have not read Mandelbrot's
>> book on the financial markets, _The (Mis)behavior
>> of Markets_ ...
>
> I'm reading this book now. If you want to read this,
> get the new 2008 edition (yellow cover) with the
> new preface written in October 2008 on the
> financial crisis. You can buy a used paperback
> copy online very cheap. I got one from
> abebooks.com for $4.50.
>

Marko, how *exactly* does this negate the Efficient Markets
Hypothesis? All the EMH says is "you can't out crazy
the market." - that the market and you have roughly
the same information.

--
Les Cargill

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 7:18 pm
From: Les Cargill

Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> "Virgil" <Virgil@home.esc> wrote in message
> news:Virgil-64345C.01342722102009@bignews.usenetmonster.com...
>> In article <lyk4ynvqii.fsf@circe.aeaea>,
>> The Other <other@address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Marko Amnell <marko.amnell@kolumbus.fi> writes:
>>>
>>>> Here is a short review which I thought was fair:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Agreed, but all of this is very old news. People have known for
>>> decades that distributions of returns are nonnormal. As the guy says,
>>> the models are used anyway when there's nothing better. It's another
>>> case of looking for your keys under the streetlight when you dropped
>>> them in the alley, because the light is better there. The main thing
>>> is that the people developing and implementing these analytics, the
>>> "rocket scientists", very rarely have a background in statistics. (I
>>> think Nissim Taleb emphasizes this fact.) I'm not talking about the
>>> big names here, but about the ones who actually do the stuff. They've
>>> typically learned their probability and statistics in physics courses,
>>> sometimes econometric courses, or sometimes even on their own.
>>> They're financial *engineers*, and like all engineers, they have no
>>> patience for "philosophical" questions like whether their models are
>>> really justified. That's the kind of stuff statisticians worry about;
>>> it's not what the customer is paying for. Engineers just want to find
>>> a formula that "works".
>
> Let us see, in my engineering institute we had separate engineering degree
> from different departments in Agricultural, Aeronautical, Electrical,
> Electronics and Electrical Communication, Chemical, Mechanical, Civil,
> Mining, Metallurgical, Naval Architecture - what the hell is a financial
> engineer? Looks like there is an effort in this ng to give genuine
> engineers a bad name. Most deplorable!
>

I don't agree with your assessment - "financial engineering" isn't
actually engineering, and most engineers care a great deal about
philosophy.

>> But, in this case at least, it appears the formulas don't work!
>>
>> Even engineers should eventually notice when that keeps happening.
>
> True, which is why *WE* from IIT Kharagpur say that e=mcc is the most
> absolute bollocks, and all peoples in all nations that *believe* in that
> sort of crap should not get any sympathy when their economies, morals,
> health, etc get busted.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arindam Banerjee.
>
>
--
Les Cargill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Superiority Complex - Authors' Tone
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/2fcef07e1cab3641?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 3:11 am
From: Jack Campin - bogus address

> Which conservative-themed book DOES'NT have a "superior"
> tone by its Author?

Celine's "Nord".

Or, from what I remember of it, "Mein Kampf". Hitler presented
his ideas as natural ones that any ordinary Joe might have come
up with. "It's just common sense" or "let's be realistic" is
a standard rhetorical strategy for the far right, and it works
better if it's presented in a just-plain-folks manner.

Whereas if you genuinely do know something that not everybody
does - Marxist insights about the economic dynamic of capitalism
or scientific knowledge about the state of the environment - you
don't have this sort of folksiness as a rhetorical option. The
right are always going to be more convincing liars.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 8:39 am
From: Transition Zone

On Oct 21, 9:39 am, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> Innews:6c9a8672-b809-447c-a993-ccc3854d208c@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com
>
> Transition Zone <mogu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Which conservative-themed book DOES'NT have a "superior" tone by its
> > Author?
>
> Superior tone? Please elaborate.

Conservative authors, malicious professors, those trying or instilling
mightier-than-thou overtones. Those who prioritize their own
Superiority Complexes above everything else. How many so-called
scholars like this have shown their stuff at international book fairs.

> > (eventually SOMEBODY'S gotta ask this)
>
> Why?

I suppose because no one has asked before.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 8:40 am
From: Transition Zone

On Oct 21, 3:04 pm, Patriot Games <Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:23:47 -0700 (PDT), Transition Zone
>
> <mogu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Which conservative-themed book DOES'NT have a "superior" tone by its
> >Author?
> >(eventually SOMEBODY'S gotta ask this)
>
> Liars are EXPOSED:
>
> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:48:58 -0700 (PDT), Transition Zone
>
> <mogu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >And Bam & Bush can both be sued by Afghan property owners in UN
> >> >> >proceedings. Iraqi property owners probably can, too.
> >> >> There are no such "UN proceedings." they don't exist.
> >> >> No, there's no such thing.
> >> >Says who ??
> >> Feel free to CITE ANY so-called "UN proceedings" where individual
> >> citizens
> >Which one? How do they define "sue"? Even so, "individual" (singular)
> >or "citizens" (plural)?
>
> You said: "And Bam & Bush can both be sued by Afghan property owners
> in UN proceedings."
>
> You were ALLOWED 24 hours to PROVE your CLAIM or OWN the LIE.
>
> >> I'm waiting....
> >' Might as well keep waiting, too.
> >> <crickets...>-
> >(Enjoy the night)
>
> Your 24 hours are GONE. You FAILED to PROVE your CLAIM, You OWN the
> LIE.
>
> YOU ARE A PROVEN LIAR.
>
> ===================================
>
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Transition Zone
>
> <mogu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 19, 3:17 pm, Patriot Games <Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
> >> STILL WAITING for your CITE of those UN Proceedings..........
> >No need, because...
>
> Thanks for ADMITTING YOU ARE A LIAR.
>
> Case closed.
>
> Game over.

Game?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 8:45 am
From: Transition Zone

On Oct 22, 6:11 am, Jack Campin - bogus address
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Which conservative-themed book DOES'NT have a "superior"
> > tone by its Author?
>
> Celine's "Nord".
>
> Or, from what I remember of it, "Mein Kampf". Hitler presented
> his ideas as natural ones that any ordinary Joe might have come
> up with. "It's just common sense" or "let's be realistic" is
> a standard rhetorical strategy for the far right, and it works
> better if it's presented in a just-plain-folks manner.

Does "plain talk" include using local vernacular?

> Whereas if you genuinely do know something that not everybody
> does - Marxist insights about the economic dynamic of capitalism
> or scientific knowledge about the state of the environment - you
> don't have this sort of folksiness as a rhetorical option. The
> right are always going to be more convincing liars.

That's what could be disturbing. Why are they? Some people actually
WANT to
be told lies. Combine this with an author's superiority complex? That
could
be a terrible host-parasite-like relationship.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 7:36 pm
From: "Francis A. Miniter"

Patriot Games wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:23:47 -0700 (PDT), Transition Zone
> <mogulah@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Which conservative-themed book DOES'NT have a "superior" tone by its
>> Author?
>> (eventually SOMEBODY'S gotta ask this)
>
> Liars are EXPOSED:
>

Putting aside the obsessive compulsive anger spilling forth
from your post, how does asking a question constitute a lie?

--
Francis A. Miniter

Oscuramente
libros, laminas, llaves
siguen mi suerte.

Jorge Luis Borges, La Cifra Haiku, 6

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheaper Kindle
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/83369cb7977feb61?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 4:11 am
From: Miles Bader

pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) writes:
> I don't think I'd use my kindle in the rain, but it is definitely more
> resistant to accidental water (such as a spilled drink) than a paperback
> is. A slightly wet book is ruined or at least unusable until it's been
> dried out again

Eh? Water definitely makes a book ugly (the pages get all swollen etc),
but hardly ruined or unusable, especially if it's only "slightly" wet.

I say this as a dedicated fan of reading in the bathtub...

[One _advantage_ of dropping a paperback into the tub is that unless you
get really lucky (bounces off the soap into the wastebasket?), the
resulting warped state is pretty much permanent, so there's no need to
get nervous about dropping it again. You can just buy another "nice"
copy for non-bathing use -- paperbacks tend to be cheap after all,
especially compared to a kindle.

But still, I do try not to drop them in...]

-Miles

--
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. -- Steven Wright

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 5:25 am
From: Walter Bushell

In article <mike-5D57CD.00221221102009@news.eternal-september.org>,
Mike Ash <mike@mikeash.com> wrote:

>
> And yet, nobody will bat an eye if you bring such a phone through
> security. They won't let you bring a bottle of water on board because it
> might be a bomb, but an electronic device that could crash the plane is
> just fine, as long as you promise to be a good boy and not to turn it on.
>
> Either they're not actually dangerous, or you can't allow them on board.
> You must pick one if you wish to remain within the realm of logic.

Ah, but HomeLand Security is a faith based organization.

--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 4:55 pm
From: Jesper Lauridsen

On 2009-10-21, Mike Ash <mike@mikeash.com> wrote:
> In article <Xns9CAB5D126F602taustingmail@69.16.186.7>,
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Then why didn't you respond to it?
>
> Despite how you may treat it, Usenet does not have to follow a pattern
> of attack and counter-attack. Sometimes people can just use a post as an
> inspiration for a marginally-related followup.

But that assumes Usenet is used to exchange ideas and information. That's
not the Usenet Austin is on.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 6:48 pm
From: Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy

Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote in
news:hbqred$1ic$1@news.eternal-september.org:

> On 2009-10-21, Mike Ash <mike@mikeash.com> wrote:
>> In article <Xns9CAB5D126F602taustingmail@69.16.186.7>,
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Then why didn't you respond to it?
>>
>> Despite how you may treat it, Usenet does not have to follow a
>> pattern of attack and counter-attack. Sometimes people can just
>> use a post as an inspiration for a marginally-related followup.
>
> But that assumes Usenet is used to exchange ideas and
> information. That's not the Usenet Austin is on.
>
That's not the usenet anyone else is on, either.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Texas Death Penalty was Bookstores Around etc
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/92153a6882249799?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 8:15 am
From: Beowulf Bolt

Francis A. Miniter wrote:
>
> Stanley Moore wrote:
> > "Beowulf Bolt" <abd.al-hazred@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4ADF6EE5.39AE@shaw.ca...
> >> Stanley Moore wrote:
> >>> There was some recent case in Texas where an illegal alien (or
> >>> maybe legal resident) was not informed that he could apply to his
> >>> consulate for help. I do not recall the details but a treaty issue
> >>> entered into it. I think it was a death penalty case. Take care
> >>
> >> If you consider a decade ago 'recent' you probably are referring
> >> to Joseph Stanley Faulder. Unfortunately for him, the Canadian
> >> appeals for his sentence to be commuted to life imprisonment
> >> because of the alien's right issue went to Dubya, and were received
> >> with Dubya's usual response (ie "no").
> >>
> >> See
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/08/us/aliens-rights-are-issue-in-texas-death-row-case.html
> >> for a brief discussion of his case.
> >>
> >
> > At my age a decade see,s recent history <G>. However a decade ago
> > "Dubya" as you call him was governor of Texas not President. Clinton
> > was President and could have commuted the sentence had he wished to.
> > In any case based on the facts of the case the death penalty was
> > fully justified. But I was referring to something more recent that
> > involved as I recall a Mexican national rather than a Canadian. Take
> > care
>
> I think Biff did mean Bush and in his capacity as Governor.

Indered I did. The guy who never failed to rubber stamp the execution
orders placed before him, feeling that if the courts had convicted him
(regardless how incompetent the defense attorney, how retarded the
culprit, or what evidence came to light thereafter), that was good
enough for him.

Regarding the Faulder case, perhaps the death penalty was indeed
"fully justified". Then again, those laws demanding consular
notification so the home country can provide legal counsel are there for
a reason. Particularly given the strong correllation between
incompetent defense lawyers and ones presence on death row. If Faulder
had competent defense, would he have faced execution? Probably not.

(I'm cynic enough to suspect that is exactly *why* Texas has such
long-standing issues granting due rights to suspects with a foreign
background.)

Biff

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"All around me darkness gathers, fading is the sun that shone,
we must speak of other matters, you can be me when I'm gone..."
- SANDMAN #67, Neil Gaiman
-------------------------------------------------------------------

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 9:21 pm
From: David Johnston

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:40:42 -0500, "Stanley Moore"
<smoore20@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Francis A. Miniter" <faminiter@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:hbodmm$i6e$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Stanley Moore wrote:
>>> "Beowulf Bolt" <abd.al-hazred@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:4ADF6EE5.39AE@shaw.ca...
>>>> Stanley Moore wrote:
>>>>> There was some recent case in Texas where an illegal alien (or maybe
>>>>> legal resident) was not informed that he could apply to his consulate
>>>>> for help. I do not recall the details but a treaty issue entered into
>>>>> it. I think it was a death penalty case. Take care
>>>> If you consider a decade ago 'recent' you probably are referring to
>>>> Joseph Stanley Faulder. Unfortunately for him, the Canadian appeals for
>>>> his sentence to be commuted to life imprisonment because of the alien's
>>>> right issue went to Dubya, and were received with Dubya's usual response
>>>> (ie "no").
>>>>
>>>> See
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/08/us/aliens-rights-are-issue-in-texas-death-row-case.html
>>>> for a brief discussion of his case.
>>>>
>>>> Biff
>>>>
>>>
>>> At my age a decade see,s recent history <G>. However a decade ago "Dubya"
>>> as you call him was governor of Texas not President. Clinton was
>>> President and could have commuted the sentence had he wished to. In any
>>> case based on the facts of the case the death penalty was fully
>>> justified. But I was referring to something more recent that involved as
>>> I recall a Mexican national rather than a Canadian. Take care
>>
>>
>> Hi Stanley,
>>
>> I think Biff did mean Bush and in his capacity as Governor. In a state
>> death penalty case, the power of commuting the sentence lies with the
>> Governor. The President of the United States has no power there. Notice
>> that in the Medellin case, Bush was trying to intervene on the side of the
>> condemned man, an act for which I give him credit (though his reasons had
>> far more to do with relations with Mexico than recognition of justice),
>> and he failed to accomplish anything at the Supreme Court.
>>
>> --
>> Francis A. Miniter
>
>I thought the power of Presidential pardon was unlimited and the President
>COULD override the governor though it would probably not be wise to do so.
>Take care

Myth. At least as the American Constitution has been interpreted, he
can only pardon people from Federal beefs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hub review of Soul Music by Terry Pratchett.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/e63aee0171bd9eeb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 8:48 am
From: Gabriel

Hi everyone,

I posted a new review of Terry Pratchetts novel, Soul Music. I wanted
to invite everyone to read it, and let me know what you think. Are
there a lot of Pratchett fans on the board here? What's you favorite
Discworld book?

Here's the link to my HubPage: http://hubpages.com/hub/Soul-Music-Pratchett
.
And a quick preview:

"I'm mean and turf and I'm mean and turf and I'm mean and turf and I'm
mean and turf,
And me an' my friends can walk towards you with our hats on backwards
in a menacing way,
Yo!"

Music has always had a mythology all it's own, and in Soul Music Terry
Pratchett looks back over rock history and puts his unique Discworld
twist on it. A young druid, Imp Y Celyn, has a gift for music and
after an argument with his father, declares that some day he would be
the greatest musician ever. To follow his dream, he follows in the
footsteps of those before him, leading to Ankh-Morpork. And much like
those who came before him, he ends up broke and hungry, looking for a
way to survive the mean streets. In situations like that strange
alliances form, in this case the slightly Elvish-looking human, a
troll (Lias Bluestone) and a dwarf (Glod Glodsson) form a band, "Band
With Rocks In". When they sign a contract with the notorious Cut-me-
own-throat Dibbler, their fate is all but sealed. And then disaster
strikes, Imp's harp breaks and the closest the group can find to
replace it with is a guitar from a mysterious instrument shop.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who's in Big Brother's Database? (book review)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/0b98cb1de08a1561?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 4:55 pm
From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)

In article <70d251fe-b1bc-4e4c-9495-6cda38bd56a3@a6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Jorge Cruz Rodriguez <jxrodri@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Who's in Big Brother's Database?
>By James Bamford
>[review of] The Secret Sentry: The Untold History of the National
>Security Agency
>by Matthew M. Aid
>
>Bloomsbury, 423 pp., $30.00

Hmmm, Monday.

I was with Bamford and David Kahn last week. Got Kahn to sign a
calendar with a quote of his. Norman Polmar was there, too.

This isn't a very good book. Bamford's Body of Secrets is somewhat better.
The anatomical structure somewhat better structures Bamford's book, but
the most important paragraph of his book is:

For many, if not most, the initial excitement of working in the
nation's largest and most secret spy agency gradually gives way to routine.
"From my perspective," said Tami McCaslin, associate editor
of the NSA Newsletter, "isolated in the depths of the Newsletter office,
I sometimes fail to see how the rest of the world can be so
intrigued by this (in my mind) typical government bureaucracy."
page 531

Aid's book isn't near as accurate as that. Chronology isn't really a
good way to attempt to understand them.

Reduce news groups in followups.

Looking for an H-912 (container).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Bird is the Word -- Olberman on Cheney
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/e0e0d891ea882d32?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 22 2009 4:47 pm
From: Just Me

Can't wait to hear Olbermann going ballistic on Cheney, tonight.

Especially the part where even yet we hear the ex-VP compassionately,
"conservatively" selling his Thousand Points of Light style of
"enhanced interrogation".

It'll be Fun Fun Fun! Unless it's some other bore in his MsNBC chair
tonight. Hopefully, nobody will have taken Rachel's T-Bird Away. Never
anything to stop that girl from showing her bird and holding it high.

Letterman's been off licking his wounds somewhere with his Bird up on
blocks.

And the crowd said, "Sa-RAH! Sa-RAH! Sa-RAH!"

Kar-MAH Kar-MAH Kar-MAH??

So the World Turns,
In the Days of Our Lives.
--
JM http://doo-dads.blogspot.com

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Thursday, October 22, 2009

rec.arts.books - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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