http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books?hl=en
rec.arts.books@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* The book that contains all books - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/1950ed5393c908a7?hl=en
* Cheaper Kindle - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/83369cb7977feb61?hl=en
* Bookstores Around the World (rec.arts.books) (FAQ) (IMPORTANT UPDATE) - 3
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/92153a6882249799?hl=en
* University Students Take Over South Vietnam Province - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/faf54095b98b5830?hl=en
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TOPIC: The book that contains all books
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/1950ed5393c908a7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 2:33 pm
From: "Mike Schilling"
Louann Miller wrote:
> rmak <rca976@live.com> wrote in
> news:f313497b-a49f-4cec-b3da-28d5462a1dd1
> @f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> (Wall Street Journal) - On October 19th, the Kindle 2
>>> (Amazon.com: http://xrl.us/KindleInternational) will
>>> become the first e-reader available globally. The only
>>> other events as important to the history of the book are
>>> the birth of print and the shift from the scroll to bound
>>> pages.
>
>> Was this Wall Street Journal article written by an Amazon
>> shareholder?
>
> Perhaps a Jeff somebody?
One of those Bozos, anyway.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 6:16 pm
From: Jack Campin - bogus address
> Was this Wall Street Journal article written by an Amazon shareholder?
I was expecting an announcement for the Kindle of Babel.
Which should be technically possible.
Seems that a version which can handle sheet music at a sight-readable
size isn't.
Until it gets that big I have absolutely zero use for it.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheaper Kindle
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/83369cb7977feb61?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 2:37 pm
From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV)
Kurt Busiek <kurt@busiek.com> writes:
>"4. It feels great. This new version has excellent button placement and
>is thin enough to cut cheese."
>
>This, on the other hand, is a good reason. It works well.
I prefer the kindle 1's button placement myself, and it's the main reason I
haven't upgraded. the new one has too much "frame".
>I haven't. There are plenty enough books available for it to keep me
>supplied, but there are plenty as yet that aren't available, either.
I've bought 3 fiction books on paper since I bought my kindle (which at
this point has about 75 books on it) because I couldn't get a kindle
edition. On the other hand, some of those 75 are books I couldn't easily
get a print edition if I wanted one.
>What does this mean? "Inclement" means it's raining or storming. Was
>it raining by the pool? Were people dunking their books? I wouldn't
>read a Kindle or a regular book outside in the rain; I'd read either
>poolside on a pleasant day.
I don't think I'd use my kindle in the rain, but it is definitely more
resistant to accidental water (such as a spilled drink) than a paperback
is. A slightly wet book is ruined or at least unusable until it's been
dried out again - a slighty wet kindle probably got a free screen cleaning.
>"7. The bookmarking and highlighting systems are vastly improved."
>
>Can't say I care.
Me either. I've never used them - I'm not a draw in the book kind of
person. it's nice to know I *can* if I want without defacing the book,
though.
>"8. The dictionary is now in-line. When you move to a word, its
>definition appears at the bottom of the page."
>
>I like this, though, and have found it useful.
The dictionary is excellent, but it needs more words and more variants of
words.
>"9. You can almost see and understand the illustrations in 16 greyscale
>shades."
>
>Not a good reason.
Illustrations are the best argument against current ebooks. They almost
without exception look like ass. It'll get there.
>"10. It is the future. Sorry, it is. Amazon nailed the ebook and
>they're going to own the space for the next few years."
>
>Not this, either.
There's something to be said for supporting a technology so it gets better.
Wait and it may never happen. Chicken and egg.
>11. You can download sample chapters for free, and get to read more of
>the book as a test-read than you're likely to read standing around in a
>bookstore sampling a book.
The single best reason to have a kindle. I use the free chapters as
placeholders for anything someone recommends, so I can either read it
later or laugh in their face. That actually happened with Twilight - I got
as far as the name "Bella Swan" and called said person and told them they
were never allowed to recommend a book to me, ever again. Saved me some
cash right there, but then I would have had something to throw at her too.
>12. Project Gutenberg's files are Kindle-compatible.
Perfectly so. You don't have to even rewrap the paragraphs anymore. Great
thing.
>13. Owning a Kindle has allowed me to buy stories I'd otherwise have to
>have bought entire anthologies to get; I've bought two Donald Westlake
>novellas and a mort of Sherwood Smith short stories as individual files
>for cheap.
There needs to be more of that - I can't count how many anthologies and
collections I'd like to "buy track" from.
>14. Free books for the Kindle, including stuff like PERDIDO STRET STATION.
Tor has a nice little set, but it's pretty limited. One of Sea Wasp's books
is on my unread list.
>No, but the ability to do a text search is an advantage one doesn't
>have with paper books. It's harder to search via the "it was somewhere
>about a third of the way through up on the left," true, but it's easier
>to search by, "When did this Harold show up and who is he again? Show
>me all the instances of 'Harold.'"
Yep. Searching is a little pokey because of the low horsepower of the
device, but it's really handy.
>"2. It's horrible for reference. Don't buy a Kindle if you just read
>programming manuals."
>
>Not a factor for me.
For a big reference book, I'd agree, but I've used it a couple times to
hold assembly instructions for kits that are in PDF form (solarbotics), and
I liked not having the pages flip over or get glue on them. Small simple
PDFs read fine, if they were set up intelligently.
>"3. The Kindle is flimsy. You'll go through your day thinking you will
>break your Kindle."
>
>No, I won't. It doesn't feel flimsy to me and I have it in a nice
>protective case.
I use the thick flap the kindle 1 came with, and I don't think it's flimsy
either. Certainly less flimsy than an iPhone, and I treat that pretty
harshly without putting a scratch on it.
>Since I disagree on 1 and 3 and don't care about 2, I don't buy this
>reasoning. Plus, I'm not a student, so it's not a factor for me.
I think it's true that even the big one needs work before it's a perfect
textbook, and the lack of color illustrations will be a problem there
sometimes, but I'd rather carry a kindle than the ox-stunning books I had
to carry around all the time in school.
>"6. No SD slot. While the Kindle can easily hold 1,500 books, what if
>you're the kind of person who likes to keep everything in its right
>place? Maybe you want to make a book playlist? Maybe you have 1,501
>books?"
>
>So what? If you want 1501 books, store them on outside media, and load
>them back in as needed. The fact that you can't carry around 1501
>books at once is not a hardship; carry the Kindle and a thumb drive, if
>you really need to have that many books available at once.
It was really dumb of them to remove the SD slot. It was a nice way to
dispose of books when you finished them on the road without deleting them -
I pop in my card, move the book to SD, and then pop it out again. The
book is there if I need it, but it's not on the menu anymore.
It's also good, or so I'm told, if you read naughty books and don't want
people to discover them if they play with your kindle.
>"7. Flight attendants will tell you to turn it off on take off and landing."
>
>This bit's annoying, yes. I can generally find enough in the inflight
>magazine to fill my time during those periods, but it's annoying.
Yeah, I get the obligatory copy of Wired so I can laugh at what a sorry
state print tech reporting has gotten to, and then flip on the kindle as
soon as I can.
>The battery lasts so long that it's not really a problem. If you're
>going to be away from home for weeks, bring the cord.
It dies a lot faster if you leave the radio on, but except for page
synching with my iPhone and new purchases made online, I rarely use the
radio anyway. The web browser is a joke, even the 'advanced' one.
>I haven't noticed it being difficult to prop up while reading; it
>weighs less than a hardcover book, so if my brawny thews are up to the
>herculean task of lifting a hardcover book, I expect this won't be a
>problem.
It weights a lot LESS than a hardcover book, and less than many paperbacks.
It's certainly easier to handle on the go than a book is - you turn the
pages with one finger and don't have to hold your place.
>The thing I was most surprised about with the Kindle was how little the
>"there's just something about a book" mattered. I expected it to be a
>huge adjustment, and it just wasn't. And no, I'd much rather have the
I already had this epiphany years ago with my palm III, and that had a much
smaller screen. Add in the amazing built in storefront, and it's at least
as much fun to browse as all but the biggest bookstore. And forget about
stupid airport bookstores. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 4:02 pm
From: Kurt Busiek
On 2009-10-20 14:37:40 -0700, pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) said:
> Kurt Busiek <kurt@busiek.com> writes:
>> I haven't. There are plenty enough books available for it to keep me
>> supplied, but there are plenty as yet that aren't available, either.
>
> I've bought 3 fiction books on paper since I bought my kindle (which at
> this point has about 75 books on it) because I couldn't get a kindle
> edition.
I've bought more than that by quite a margin -- the NESFA Zelazny
anthologies, SONGS OF THE DYING EARTH (which I suppose will be out for
Kindle when the trade edition comes out next year), a couple of Library
of America titles, the latest Matt Hughes novel and more, and that's
just counting new books. The Kindle editions seem to come largely
(though not exclusively) from the major publishers, while Subterranean
Press, Night Shade Books and other smaller presses haven't opened that
particular revenue stream.
Plus, I'm still waiting for some Kindle books to drop to an acceptable
price -- TREASON'S SHORE by Sherwood Smith is at close to $14, which is
more than I want to pay for an e-book, the local library doesn't have
it, and ILL wants to wait until a book's a year old before circulating
it beyond its local area, I'm told.
But I find plenty to read on the Kindle anyway, and I'm spending less
and reading more, so the fact that there are still printed books I'm
buying doesn't change the fact that the Kindle's been a delight.
[And I just checked, and the library now has TREASON'S SHORE, so I've
got it on hold and DaW lost a sale they could have made if they'd been
willing to charge a standard price. If and when I want to re-read it,
though, it'll be the Kindle version of a paperback price by then, so
it'll be considerably cheaper.]
> On the other hand, some of those 75 are books I couldn't easily
> get a print edition if I wanted one.
That's nice, too.
>> "10. It is the future. Sorry, it is. Amazon nailed the ebook and
>> they're going to own the space for the next few years."
>>
>> Not this, either.
>
> There's something to be said for supporting a technology so it gets better.
> Wait and it may never happen. Chicken and egg.
Sure, but I don't think that's what he meant. "Owns the space" implies
that theyr'e going to be the category leader -- which is probably true
-- but if there aren't other compelling reasons to buy the product,
that it's the category leader doesn't matter. I don't know who "owns
the space" for curling irons, but I don't need one so it's irrelevant.
>> 11. You can download sample chapters for free, and get to read more of
>> the book as a test-read than you're likely to read standing around in a
>> bookstore sampling a book.
>
> The single best reason to have a kindle. I use the free chapters as
> placeholders for anything someone recommends, so I can either read it
> later or laugh in their face.
I don't laugh in people's faces (well, not for book recommendations),
but it's great to be able to check out a decent chunk of a book that
might be interesting. In some cases, I've read the sample and decided
to get the book from the library, or left the sample sitting there on
my Kindle as a reminder to buy it once it's out in paperback and the
Kindle price drops accordingly.
It's funny -- the reason it took me as long as it did to buy a Kindle
was because I couldn't go to some store and pick one up and sample it,
and the great strength of the Kindle is how easy it is to sample things
on it.
>> 13. Owning a Kindle has allowed me to buy stories I'd otherwise have to
>> have bought entire anthologies to get; I've bought two Donald Westlake
>> novellas and a mort of Sherwood Smith short stories as individual files
>> for cheap.
>
> There needs to be more of that - I can't count how many anthologies and
> collections I'd like to "buy track" from.
Yep. I don't have much interest in buying lots of back issues of
magazines and small-press anthologies from England, but if all the
uncollected "Archonate" stories were available as downloadable e-texts,
I'd buy them all in a heartbeat.
>> The battery lasts so long that it's not really a problem. If you're
>> going to be away from home for weeks, bring the cord.
>
> It dies a lot faster if you leave the radio on, but except for page
> synching with my iPhone and new purchases made online, I rarely use the
> radio anyway. The web browser is a joke, even the 'advanced' one.
Yeah. I turn the link on when I need to download something. Leaving
it on will drain the battery fast, but I don't need to leave it on to
do wht I need it for. If I desperately need to search the Web and I
don't have my laptop handy, I've got my iPhone.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 9:22 pm
From: Mike Ash
In article <Xns9CAA94105697taustingmail@69.16.186.50>,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Ash <mike@mikeash.com> wrote in
> news:mike-846614.16392720102009@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > In article <Xns9CAA6E3DCA77Btaustingmail@69.16.186.50>,
> > Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Digital watches are not known for emitting RF. Pretty much
> >> anything with a screen, especially if it also has a computer
> >> CPU, can. It isn't that they think it does, so much as it
> >> hasn't been tested and proven not to. And even if it were,
> >> there's millions of other devices out there that haven't, and
> >> the flight crew doesn't have time to look for compliance
> >> stickers on each and every device. They would rather annoy you
> >> than allow even the remotest avoidable chance (even an
> >> unrealistic one) of interfering with the avionics.
> >
> > And of course nobody is ever troubled by the massive
> > contradiction of the idea that a turned-on cell phone could
> > somehow take down the aircraft, but enforcement of it is purely
> > voluntary.
> >
> You didn't even read what I wrote, did you?
Of course I did.
> (There have been tests that demonstrated that certain models of
> phone could, possibly even in the real world, affect certain types
> of avionics gear, though in both cases the type would be "very,
> very old.")
And yet, nobody will bat an eye if you bring such a phone through
security. They won't let you bring a bottle of water on board because it
might be a bomb, but an electronic device that could crash the plane is
just fine, as long as you promise to be a good boy and not to turn it on.
Either they're not actually dangerous, or you can't allow them on board.
You must pick one if you wish to remain within the realm of logic.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bookstores Around the World (rec.arts.books) (FAQ) (IMPORTANT UPDATE)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/92153a6882249799?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 4:45 pm
From: scotkamins
In article <5LSdnWT3MbwPsUPXnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"Stanley Moore" <smoore20@comcast.net> wrote:
> It certainly sounds complicated. But the news channels have to simplify the
> issues for braodcast, Anyway treaties can have far reaching effects. Take
> care
Right, How bout all future entries in this string remove
rec.collecting.books? This has nothing to do with our newsgroup.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 6:30 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper
scotkamins wrote:
> In article <5LSdnWT3MbwPsUPXnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "Stanley Moore" <smoore20@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> It certainly sounds complicated. But the news channels have to simplify the
>> issues for braodcast, Anyway treaties can have far reaching effects. Take
>> care
>
> Right, How bout all future entries in this string remove
> rec.collecting.books? This has nothing to do with our newsgroup.
It has nothing to do with any of the groups, or with my original subkect
line, and I wish people would change the Subject so I didn't have to
keep reading this in case *someone* decided to post an update about
actual bookstores.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I don't need a friend who changes when I change and who nods
when I nod; my shadow does that much better. -Plutarch
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 11:41 pm
From: "Taemon"
Evelyn Leeper wrote:
> It has nothing to do with any of the groups, or with my original
> subkect line, and I wish people would change the Subject so I didn't
> have to keep reading this in case *someone* decided to post an update
> about actual bookstores.
I simply don't read any message that contains only quotes on the first page.
Saves a lot of annoyance.
T.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: University Students Take Over South Vietnam Province
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/faf54095b98b5830?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 20 2009 11:14 pm
From: TB
On Oct 17, 8:50 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
> "Tim Bruening" <tsbru...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>
> news:4AD97CA0.C7E54889@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>
>
>
> > PP 206-207 of Norman Vincent Peale's "Enthusiasm Makes The Difference":
> > Peale says that he was told that a dozen students came to South
> > Vietnamese Premier Ky (who was Premier in the mid 1960s) and said "Turn
> > over a province to us, let us administer it". He was started at their
> > audacity, but found that they had dreams and practical plans to go with
> > it, so gave them a province of 30,000 people. Said province was a
> > depraved section and a hotbed for Communist espionage. The students dug
> > into the mud, repaired bulldozers, helped farmers with their livestock,
> > drained swamps, cleaned up sewer systems, and built 600 homes, a
> > hospital, and 17 health centers. Inside of a year, they had closed up
> > the Communist leak, cleaned up the entire surroundings, and made it a
> > place of health. Ky wished that he could do with the entire country
> > what the students did with one province. Does anyone know more about
> > the above story than what Peale said? (Peale neglected to identify the
> > province, nor did he say why the students weren't directed to administer
> > the entire nation!).
>
> We have reasons to doubt the veracity of this.
>
> 1. A province of only 30,000 people would be very unusual in
> Vietnam, which had in the 1980s 53 million people in 37
> provinces (most over 1M population, the smallest 322,000
> according to my Statesman's Year Book.)
I speak of South Vietnam (44 provinces) in the mid 1960s, which would
have had fewer people.
>
> 2. We are invited to believe a dozen newcomers, few or none
> of them experienced in building trades, completed within a
> year construction of 600 houses and 18 health centres. (In the
> French or US building industries, no group of 12 people could
> be expected to do this let alone while simultaneously draining
> swamps and cleaning up sewage systems.)
They would have been able to recruit local residents to help them,
since they were administering the province with the support of the
South Vietnamese government.
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